RC EVOLUTION - 遙控工房 - 香港RC遙控車討論區

標題: Rewinding & rebuilding a motor Step by Step (updated on 10 Apr 2010) [打印本頁]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-25 21:30
標題: Rewinding & rebuilding a motor Step by Step (updated on 10 Apr 2010)
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-4-10 00:26 編輯

Let me clarify that this is not a tutotial. All I wish is to share experience, both mine and yours. If you have any comments or if I make any error, feel free to respond and correct me.
You can drag your mouse over the pictures I post to read the description.
[attach]340749[/attach][localimg=180,121]2[/localimg

作者: wilsonyee 時間: 2010-1-25 21:38
thank you billy sir

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-25 21:43
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-25 22:09 編輯

[attach]340761[/attach][attach]340760[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-25 21:46
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-25 22:15 編輯

As you unwind the motor, you will find how "untidy" that the machine winding was. This results in loose winding and thus lowers the efficiency of the motor (having both a lower speed at all ranges and a shorter run-time).

TO BE CONTINUED... (Forgive me that I would like to do this bit by bit.)

作者: 800mah 時間: 2010-1-25 22:24
i was trying hard to find a tutorial like this on the net!!!!

you are marvelous !!! i will do the same after u complete the tutorial~

作者: scalpel 時間: 2010-1-25 22:38
本帖最後由 scalpel 於 2011-4-23 12:55 編輯

Really useful information!!! Thanks a lot!

作者: piano 時間: 2010-1-25 22:47
(Keep it in good condition! If you work slowly, you might have to buy your son another.)

or get another wife and another son.............that is better

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-25 22:54

(Keep it in good condition! If you work slowly, you might have to buy your son another.)

or get another wife and another son.............that is better
piano 發表於 2010-1-25 22:47

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I guess one is already too many. How can I be looking for another?

作者: piano 時間: 2010-1-25 23:14
get another and swap, stupid

作者: SuperAguri 時間: 2010-1-26 00:09
真係好 PRO ! 獲益良多

作者: natnatbobo 時間: 2010-1-26 00:18
very "pro", waiting to see u rewind it back

作者: teamlosi 時間: 2010-1-26 00:30

340761340760
billy86che 發表於 2010-1-25 21:43

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old lion the last one photo lighting is good wo...

作者: 2slow 時間: 2010-1-26 01:50
Great! can't wait to see the whole process...

作者: 奸仔 時間: 2010-1-26 09:32
What a fuxking good how-to thread, teacher!

作者: d.s 時間: 2010-1-26 13:06
謝謝老師分享~

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 21:47
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-26 22:22 編輯

[attach]340997[/attach][attach]340998[/attach]

These are the types of wire that I use to do the winding. They are 29#(the thickest I prefer), 30#, 31# and 32# (the thinnest I use, equals to those inside the kit motor) respectively from left to right. Each coil costs less than $100 but you'll become physically handicapped if you finish using the whole coil in a short time. I guess I can't possibly use up any one of them in my life-time.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 21:49
[attach]340999[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 21:51
[attach]341000[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 21:54
[attach]341002[/attach][attach]341001[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 21:56
[attach]341003[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 22:01
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-26 22:04 編輯

[attach]341009[/attach]
Note that I am winding the motor in a clockwise direction, which is the opposite to the kit motor, the Xspeed and most of the motors on the market. All I have to do is to switch the 2 magnets.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 22:02
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-26 22:26 編輯

[attach]341010[/attach]
When you move the wire to the centre using tools, or you wish to lay them tightly together, be careful not to make scratches onto them so they "short-circuit". If possible, I prefer using my finger nail.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 22:06
[attach]341011[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 22:07
[attach]341012[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 22:13
[attach]341013[/attach]

I finished seven layers and each layer has 1 wire less than the previous one. I made this 62-turn, which can/should run for at least 30 minutes per pack of battery (orion 900mah). When I make a fast motor that runs for about 13 minutes, I usually use 29# wire and make 35 turns.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 22:16
[attach]341015[/attach]
Tie the end this way and you can go forward to the next coil. I will show you how to solder this later.
TO BE CONTINUED...

作者: LeoChan 時間: 2010-1-26 22:30
good !

作者: AMAT 時間: 2010-1-26 22:39
VERY NICE!
非常好O既技術文章!

作者: d.s 時間: 2010-1-26 23:19
強烈要求置頂及精華

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-26 23:27
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-26 23:29 編輯

[attach]341070[/attach]
OK, here comes a question:
In the above pic, all 3 types of winding have the same number of turns. Which type should we choose? A, B or C? (I'll come back to this tomorrow.)

作者: d.s 時間: 2010-1-27 00:26
我揀C~~~~~

作者: 毒魚 時間: 2010-1-27 00:35
應該是b吧= =?

作者: 800mah 時間: 2010-1-27 01:04
我選 (a)

一來d重量 closer to centre, 起圍快.
二來d重量分佈得圓d, more balanced

作者: teamlosi 時間: 2010-1-27 01:18
餐B呀,唔該!!!

作者: puiaxial 時間: 2010-1-27 08:58
本帖最後由 puiaxial 於 2010-1-27 09:03 編輯

I guess A , but that is too difficult in technique
so B will be the common one ?

作者: 暴風超音 時間: 2010-1-27 09:19
great post!
some additional info on net...
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/m5580035/20792040

作者: 2slow 時間: 2010-1-27 09:30
it's "A" or probably "B", winding it tightly and evenly is more important I guess

but I got a Question Billy C Hing, is it necessary to scrape off the coating before connect the wire ends to the comm.?

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-27 11:03

great post!
some additional info on net...
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/m5580035/20792040
暴風超音發表於 2010-1-27 09:19

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This is a very good source!

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-27 11:04

it's "A" or probably "B", winding it tightly and evenly is more important I guess

but I got a Question Billy C Hing, is it necessary to scrape off the coating before connect the wire ends to the co ...
2slow 發表於 2010-1-27 09:30

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I don't usually weaken the wire at this stage. I solder it only when I finish all the winding. I'll certainly show you that.

作者: 2slow 時間: 2010-1-27 11:22

I don't usually weaken the wire at this stage. I solder it only when I finish all the winding. I'll certainly show you that.
billy86che 發表於 2010-1-27 11:04

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I see, and what motor case and Magnet will you use on this one?

this is very interesting topic, it could be more helpful if Ching can explain the relations and secrets between the:
- gauge of wire used
- number winds
- type of winds
- amperage drawn
- Magnet used
- etc...

作者: pissa 時間: 2010-1-27 12:56
very useful and I will try to rewind myself

作者: kwok 時間: 2010-1-27 14:35

great post!
some additional info on net...
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/m5580035/20792040
暴風超音發表於 2010-1-27 09:19

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開正你個番呀暴暴!

作者: 168boy 時間: 2010-1-27 19:32
用鑽做平衡都幾難, 對位深淺好難control, 一般响中間鑽....其實前後都好大影響.....

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 01:07
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-28 01:19 編輯

[attach]341307[/attach]
This is a 48-turn rotor at 31# wire.
Note that my choice is Answer B.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 01:10
[attach]341308[/attach]

I usually prefer filing away the coating.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 01:11
[attach]341309[/attach][attach]341310[/attach]
Note the filed surfaces.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 01:14
[attach]341311[/attach]
Simple tools for soldering. The solder should have a higher melting point, preferably with a silver content.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 01:16
[attach]341312[/attach]

Note that the solder should cover both the hinge and the filed surface of the wire.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 01:18
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-4-10 00:31 編輯

The next 2 questions are:
1. What magnets should we use?
2. How can we reassemble the motor?

TO BE CONTINUED...

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 21:24
[attach]341525[/attach]

One of the things I found very important when rebuilding a motor is how hot it is when it runs. The hotter it becomes, the more easily it will be for the magnets to die out, resulting in slower spinning and getting even hotter. That is why I will do this.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 21:29
[attach]341532[/attach]

Some people said that I was doing too much. They said this created a "leakage" in the power of the magnets. But provided I use the stronger thin silver magnets, I am never worried about that.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 21:30
[attach]341533[/attach]

Am I really doing too much? What do you think?

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 21:33
[attach]341534[/attach]

I use this for my modified LCG AWD. This side is on top and I do not have to keep the pillars.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 21:34
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-28 21:44 編輯

[attach]341535[/attach]

Semi-finished.

Not only can I learn about modifying motors, I can also sharpen my photo-taking skills. Now I know why people have 2 or 3 flash lights.

One thing I ask for:
"The motor should be cool enough so that I can keep my finger on it for very long (not just have a quick touch) immediately after running for a whole pack of battery."

作者: LokSpec 時間: 2010-1-28 21:44
樓主真係好心機

單線48繞

我最多都係繞雙線8繞
[attach]341537[/attach]

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 21:47
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-28 22:00 編輯

樓主真係好心機
單線48繞

我最多都係繞雙線8繞
341537
LokSpec 發表於 2010-1-28 21:44

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3 volts? Tamiya 4WD? Gold magnets? How long can this run on mini-Z for every pack of cells?

More importantly, how many times can this run fast?

作者: LokSpec 時間: 2010-1-28 22:04

3 volts? Tamiya 4WD? Gold magnets? How long can this run on mini-Z for every pack of cells?
billy86che 發表於 2010-1-28 21:47

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Magnet Maybe AUDLEY or 天豪 (TAMIYA NEVER make this kind of stuff for 1/32 Mini 4WD

)

I don't think my motor can run on Mini-Z
48-turn rotor at 31# wire, it will take me a whole day to make one

Great Job

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-28 22:05
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-1-28 22:11 編輯

Magnet Maybe AUDLEY or 天豪 (TAMIYA NEVER make this kind of stuff for 1/32 Mini 4WD )

I don't think my motor can run on Mini-Z
48-turn rotor at 31# wire, it will take me a whole day to make ...
LokSpec 發表於 2010-1-28 22:04

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I was asking whether the motor is for tamiya 4WD. I definitely know that tamiya won't produce gold magnets.
Actually, it took me only 15 minutes to wind the 48-turn. You wish to see that?

作者: rk2 時間: 2010-1-29 17:12

好 pro !!

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-30 11:23
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-1 20:15 編輯

[attach]341880[/attach]

One of the conditions for a motor to run fast and efficiently is the position of the armature. It must be at the centre of the magnetic field to reduce friction. The picture shows a good example of an armature"floating" in the middle of the 2 bearings or bushings.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-30 11:28
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-1 20:15 編輯

[attach]341881[/attach][attach]341882[/attach]

Both pics above display not only extra friction on the bearings, but also the fact that the armatures aren't at the centre of the magnetic field, lowering the efficiency to a very large extent when we are talking about this kind of small, lower current motor. They'll run a lot more slowly.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-30 11:35
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-1 15:44 編輯

However, you might have to TAKE AWAY THE BRUSHES FIRST before you are able to check whether the armature stays at the centre of the magnetic field, which is not very convenient when you are using conventional motor cans.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-30 11:52
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-1 15:44 編輯

[attach]341887[/attach]

Even rookies, usually those running the AWD, might have overlooked this and made the mistake above because they might think that there is no need to secure the end bell using the 2 hinges. You might find a big difference in the clearances between the armature and the bearings if you don't reinstall the endbell tightly. A "tilted" bearing shown above (because the endbell isn't installed well) is an even worse case.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-1-30 12:14
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-1 15:44 編輯

Here are three ways to adjust the position of the armature to fit different motor cans. (CLICK TO ENLARGE) See if you have other ways.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-2-1 12:12

I see, and what motor case and Magnet will you use on this one?

this is very interesting topic, it could be more helpful if Ching can explain the relations and secrets between the:
- gauge ...
2slow 發表於 2010-1-27 11:22

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I only use 3 kinds of magnets: from strong to weak :silver thin magnets, plasma dash (tamiya) and magnets from kit motor.

Thin silver goes with anything lower than 40-turn.
Kit motor magnets go with a rotor of 60 and higher turn.
For something in the middle, around 40-60-turn, I use the plasma dash (black) magnets.

Note that magnets die easily when the temperature is high. When they are weakened, the temperature becomes even higher while the motor runs more slowly.

作者: 暴風超音 時間: 2010-2-1 12:33

開正你個番呀暴暴!
kwok 發表於 2010-1-27 14:35

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我黎學野架炸

作者: 2slow 時間: 2010-2-2 09:13

I only use 3 kinds of magnets: from strong to weak :silver thin magnets, plasma dash (tamiya) and magnets from kit motor.

Thin silver goes with anything lower than 40-turn.
Kit motor magnets g ...
billy86che 發表於 2010-2-1 12:12

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Thanks for the info. can't wait to see the final figures..
but how about the N and S pole of the magnets, does it matters if I swap the poles, or how do I identify N or S poles?
how about the brushs' positions??
sorry I got a lot of questions, I'm just a new guy to this stuffs...Thanks

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-2-2 21:56
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-2 22:19 編輯

[attach]342839[/attach]

Compare the kit motor armature (left )with another that I bought from someone (right).
One thing that the picture can't show is that the left one actually has a thicker shaft and you have to file it a little bit to fit in 2mm bearings.
Second, look at why you have to adjust the shimming I mentioned before.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-2-2 21:58
[attach]342840[/attach]

If you take away the kit motor commutator, you can see that it is 3-legged.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-2-2 22:00
[attach]342841[/attach]

Be brave to cut them all.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-2-2 22:01
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-2 22:02 編輯

[attach]342843[/attach]

This allows some very important adjustment I can make next.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-2-2 22:04
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-2-2 22:10 編輯

[attach]342845[/attach]

I can turn the commutator a little clockwise to acquire a positive timing just as the bigger scale RC cars do. You need to apply some instant glue to fix it. Th effect will be a higher RPM, particularly when you are using stronger magnets, but this will also reduce the run time a little bit as a trade off. I found armatures with more turns, say more than 60, need this move especially when they are used with stronger magnets, or else, you can't feel the improvement even if you wind it perfectly.

作者: pissa 時間: 2010-2-8 12:07
Very useful information and I will try it sometime

作者: BGZ 時間: 2010-2-8 22:49
利害啊。

不過，我仲未買到漆皮線。因為，上次去買既時間唔啱，佢地趕住收工。仲有，佢現貨 D Size 古古怪怪咁。一係就要訂。

我諗住遲ｄ再去行下，睇下有無第二間。

作者: 800mah 時間: 2010-2-8 22:52
本帖最後由 800mah 於 2010-5-13 22:23 編輯

利害啊。

不過，我仲未買到漆皮線。因為，上次去買既時間唔啱，佢地趕住收工。仲有，佢現貨 D Size 古古怪怪咁。一係就要訂。

我諗住遲ｄ再去行下，睇下有無第二間。
BGZ 發表於 2010-2-8 22:49

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我今日買左一卷 #29, 買左 1lb

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-4-10 00:25
本帖最後由 billy86che 於 2010-4-10 00:40 編輯

This is how I find out the heavier side of an armature in order to balance it. The heavier side always goes to the bottom.

作者: kambox808 時間: 2010-4-10 22:24
本帖最後由 kambox808 於 2010-4-10 22:26 編輯

回復 76# billy86che
i use this.........................>

作者: 仲哥仔 時間: 2010-4-11 18:48
我搞噶...卑D意见.未做平衡.

作者: 車大砲 時間: 2010-4-19 21:31
點解有 d 銅線深色 d,有 d 淺色d,有咩分別呢?

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-5-24 23:33

點解有 d 銅線深色 d,有 d 淺色d,有咩分別呢?
車大砲發表於 2010-4-19 21:31

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To what I've experienced, colour doesn't matter. What you see is the colour of the coating. All you have to watch out is its thickness.

作者: piano 時間: 2010-5-25 00:24

To what I've experienced, colour doesn't matter. What you see is the colour of the coating. All ...
billy86che 發表於 2010-5-24 23:33

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mmmmmmmmmm....I miss you

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-5-25 08:26

mmmmmmmmmm....I miss you
piano 發表於 2010-5-25 00:24

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無不散筵席
but there are always chances to meet, play, eat and "dup".

作者: 奸仔 時間: 2010-5-25 10:20
回復 81# piano

麻倉妹妹, I miss you too

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-5-25 11:22
回復 83# 奸仔

a new name for piano?

作者: piano 時間: 2010-5-25 11:56

無不散筵席
but there are always chances to meet, play, eat and "dup".
billy86che 發表於 2010-5-25 08:26

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我唔識咩天下無不散之圓寂，我淨係識天下無不dup之老師，我地坐言起行，就哩個禮拜吖

作者: teamlosi 時間: 2010-5-25 12:32
老C而家頭dup dup,眼咪咪,見到架車都唔知係乜lu....

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-5-25 13:03

老C而家頭dup dup,眼咪咪,見到架車都唔知係乜lu....
teamlosi 發表於 2010-5-25 12:32

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我冇荒廢過
只要有信心, 武功就會番泥.

作者: piano 時間: 2010-5-26 11:30
我冇荒廢過
只要有信心, 武功就會番泥.

作者: billy86che 時間: 2010-5-26 14:54

我冇荒廢過
只要有信心, 武功就會番泥.
piano 發表於 2010-5-26 11:30

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According to what I know, a good father like u can never be a fast driver either.

作者: piano 時間: 2010-5-26 23:48
Well..…I am fast in somewhere else

作者: roypo2001 時間: 2010-6-21 19:54
THANKS FOR SAHRING!!!

作者: 車大砲 時間: 2010-8-16 21:11
請問呢 d 蕊可以係邊到買到啊~?!行左好耐都唔見有

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